EPISODE #048: ORGANIZATION AND RELATIONSHIP SYSTEMS COACHING (ORSC) FOR TEAMSPODCAST SHOW NOTES - FAITH FULLER, PHD
Faith Fuller, PhD, Co-Founder & President of CRR Global & Co-Creator of the Organization and Relationship Systems Coaching (ORSC) Program
#048 – Organization and Relationship Systems Coaching (ORSC) for Teams
Join Dr. Krister Lowe and today’s guest and leading organizational coach–Dr. Faith Fuller–for this episode of The Team Coaching Zone Podcast. Faith Fuller, PhD is Co-Owner and President of CRR Global and The Organization and Relationship Systems Coaching (ORSC) program. CRR Global is an ICF accredited coach training school. She is an experienced Psychologist, Coach and Trainer with 15+ years experience working with organizations, couples and communities. Faith takes a systems approach to coaching.
In this episode of the podcast Faith shares her journey as a psychologist into the field of coaching and into working with systems at the individual, pair and collective levels. Themes explored in the podcast include: coaching with a system’s lens; 3 levels of system; the 3rd entity; bringing the system into the coaching; the role of conflict in creating organizational and culture change; an overview of the 5 course ORSC series; sustaining change through coaching systems over time; some insights about working with systems coaching across cultures and more. Faith also shares two great stories: one about a disrupter in a team called “The Beach Master” and another involving scaling systems coaching in a county government.
This podcast is a wonderful opportunity for team and systems coaches to learn from one of the pioneers in the field and is an episode that you will surely not want to miss!
Contact Faith: Faith@crrglobal.com
- CRR Global and the Organization and Relationship Systems Coaching (ORSC) Training Program.http://www.crrglobal.com
- Rod, A. & Fridjhon, M. (2015). Creating Intelligent Teams: Leading with Relationship Systems Intelligence.
- Mindell, A. (2014). Sitting in the Fire: Large Group Transformation Using Conflict & Diversity.
- Guttman, H. (2008). Creating Great Teams: Cracking the Code for Standout Performance.
Listen to the podcast:
Part 1 – Getting to Know the Team Coach: Faith Fuller, PhD
- Co-Owner and President of CRR Global and The Organization and Relationship Systems Coaching (ORSC) program.
- Experienced Psychologist, Coach and Trainer with 15+ years experience working with organizations, couples and communities.
- Takes a systems approach to coaching.
- Background in consultation, team building, conflict resolution and crisis intervention.
- Patchwork quilt in terms of her background: psychologist, organizational development, process work with Arnold Mindell, Buddhist
- CRR Global: ICF credentialed coach training school – working with organizations, groups, communities; training coaches as well as doing direct intervention
- Based out of northern California in Venetia; now in at least 12 countries around the world (Dubai, South Africa, Japan, Europe, etc…); small company with a large footprint and a team of faculty
- Co-Founded CRR Global in 1991
- Coaching: loved the coaching stance; after many years in mental health which emphasizes a pathology stance found the coaching stance with a person as “naturally creative, resourceful and whole” very refreshing; felt like she came home with coaching
- When CRR Global got started ICF wasn’t sure what to do with them (i.e. How to examine CRR Global’s students?)
- Trends: idea of coaching more than one person naturally arises when you coach one individual; people are interested in how do you work with a team
- Faith’s journey: inherently curious about people’s relationships; helps to be curious about people’s relationships to do this work; helpful to have a background in human dynamics, consultation or mediation but really being interested in people important; youngest of four siblings; psychology was a natural fit for understanding complexity in her family; influenced by Arnold Mindell
Part 2 – Approach to Team Coaching & Stories Applying ORSC
- Introduction to ORSC: Systems are one of the most impactful ways of working with a team or an organization; systems are all around us; try to help coaches shift their “focal length view.”
- Begin with the individual (an executive is a system). Remember the last time you had an argument with yourself…we are all made up of many parts and selves and sometimes we are more aligned than others. The first system is the self and all its aspects.
- Systems show up at three levels: 1. Individual, 2. Pair, 3. More than 2 People (teams, organizations, inter-organizations, nations, etc…)
- The 3rd Entity – what is created when two or more people come together, the relationship between us is an entity.
- What is needed by the relationship now and not just what the individual voices are speaking?
- ORSC approach has a bunch of tools: teach team coaches how to see, hear, sense the system and to help the system have voice. For example putting a chair in the room that is the “voice of the organization.” Invite someone to come up and speak on behalf of the organization. What does the organization need or is wanting from this conversation. Other examples of tools involve: working with team toxins, conflict protocols, visioning, teambuilding, making excellent agreements, designing a culture consciously.
- Conflict & Culture: not problematic in and of itself; conflict is a sign that the system wants something to change; a signal that something is not quite right; need to get curious about what is trying to happen; what is the intelligence in the dispute; getting un-triggered with conflict; develop a set of agreements about what are rules are when we get into a fight or conflict. Recommends Guttman Great Business Teams. Having a conflict protocol and a decision-making protocol critical in teams. Working conflict creates an opportunity consciously work culture in teams. Conflict a ripe area for coaches to work systemically. Concerned about teams that are conflict averse.
- Systems are innately more flat in their hierarchy than how many organizations are structured; executives that are too command and control often are out of alignment with the system and that can be a risk area for team coaches. Important for team coaches to work with the team leader in order to create a safe environment for systems work to be done.
- Example of an organization going through the ORSC series – embedding systems coaching into the organization’s culture.
- Working with systems requires 3 types of intelligence: emotional intelligence, social intelligence and RSI (relationship systems intelligence).
- Example of working with an aeronautics group: had EQ and SQ but challenged on the RSI level; some cultures like Japan grow up with more of a sense of the system than other cultures
- Story of a Disrupter – “The Beach Master”: Begins with needs assessment and shaping the engagement according to the needs that are found. Every person on a team is a voice of that system. Disrupter – an aggressive Vice President that they called “The Beach Master.” She was pretty aggressive or mean. She wasn’t like at all in the group. They were doing some work around 360 feedback with the individuals and the group. Coaches invited VP to talk about her relationship to the group and her role: what emerged was that the group was colluding in avoiding dealing with the tough stuff and putting forward this VP to do all that hard work on behalf of the group. Group sends her out to do the dirty work that no one else wants to do or to get their hands dirty. What she said was so resonant. Sat in the silence for a bit and let it ripen. Called a break in the session with an invitation to come back and reflect about what happened afterwards. CEO after the break said “It pissed me off but there is truth in what you said…” The coaches then turned to the team to look at accountability and responsibility in the team. Roles belong to the system. If you cut someone of the team, the role will emerge with someone else. Crazy wisdom and the “obstacle as antidote” – the problem is the doorway and there is some wisdom behind that door if we can venture into it.
- Story of Culture Change in a County Government: working with a county government for 4 years; put four cohorts through the 5-part ORSC series. 70+ people who have gone through ORSC and have the vocabulary and the values; not being afraid of conflict and identifying the wisdom underlying it; extraordinary to see the impact on a real-life government agency. Creating a way of being together and consciously creating their organization’s culture. In between courses the participants apply tools and work with what’s emerging. Coaching sessions with the group in between the courses. Across the 5 sessions they have the time to internalize the concepts and tools and to begin consciously impacting the system. Usually about a month to 6 weeks between the courses. About creating a coaching culture within the organization. So much performance pressure on organizations that it requires time for real change to occur.
- 5 Course ORSC Series:
- #1 Organization and Relationship Systems at Work: 2 days; how to see the system, hear it, and sense it; the emotional field
- #2 Systems Intelligence: 3 days; all about change; individuals, couples, teams, organizations, nations
- #3 Systems Geography: 3 days; all about the structure of systems; leveraging diversity and how to work with roles; ghost roles that haunt the system; how to work with triggers
- #4 Relationship Systems Path: 3 days; how to bring out the creativity and generativity within a team
- #5 Systems Integration: 3 days; bringing it all together
- Ongoing coaching: How does sustainable change take root? Look to Europe and Japan – more comfort there to bringing a coach in to work over the course of a year. In the US we are always trying to spend the minimum amount of time possible (e.g. cultural transformation in 1/2 day; unrealistic expectations). Need to challenge clients around building in the ongoing coaching and support.
- Working in Japan: best ORSC students come from Japan; in Japan you need to assess relative rank of people in the room and address them accordingly; sensing the dynamics in the room; Japanese are sharp in this sense; more “we” than ‘I” and interested in the emotional spaces or field that surrounds a room. Slower and more thoughtful moving and deeply relational. Very hierarchal however the idea of the “daylight lamp.” Leader shines light but doesn’t fill up the whole room. Concept of evolving others in Japan is fascinating.
Part 3 – Parting Advice & Recommended Resources
- Happenings at CRR Global: Marita’s new book Creating Intelligent Teams: Leading with Relationship Systems Intelligence. New partners opening up in Mexico, Spain, Korea. Doing more internal ORSC series in organizations often as part of leadership programs.
- Upcoming courses can be found at www.crrglobal.com
- CRR Global: Center for Right Relationship (right as in “correct”; was Taoist in spirit and not “right” as in conservative)
- ORSC: Organization & Relationship Systems Coaching
- Logo of circle or a curvature with parts moving out it: parts moving out into a whole
- Parting advice: gives Faith great joy to see that coaching is here to stay and the different forms are flourishing; find your spot; there is something in you that is calling your unique form of coaching into the world; the time is right; be bold and move out there.